Heater decoupled ?!?!?

DBSDBS · May 2015

I'm at a stage to give up. Problem, after problem/......

First, Nomather what I tell to the printer (firmware or EEPROM), EVERY TIME when I send G32 S0, THE FIRST row after G32 S0 in the log is: "Autoleveling is disabled"?!?!?!?!

I set "Autolevel active" to "1", I send S320 S2 - NO change.... AND ofcourse, because my bed is not perfect, the first pass is allways problematic!!!

HOW to enable this st...d "Autolevel" ?????

Second: After pausing print (because of WRONG Z0) followed by "Emergency Stop", printing proces do not start any more until restart the host !?!?!?! What is this? Why? It is normal after "Emergency Stop" everything to go to initial state... or?

Third: In the middle of the print (usually on the third layer) I receive: "Heater decoupled" and the extruder stops?!?!? The print proces (without extrusion) continue!!! WHY ???????????

Am I so stupid or what???

Repetier · May 2015

1. G32 must disable autoleveling at start. It can only compute new leveling matrix if it measures the real distances, After it is finished it enables autoleveling again with new matrix which should also be in the log a bit deeper.

2. I have to check. I guess I never checked emergency stop while paused. I guess the pause is then still active.

3. That is what decoupling test is for. See log to see which criterion triggered it and adjust the parameter accordingly. In latest version you can disable decoupling tests with a decoupling time of 0.

DBSDBS · May 2015

Namely "decoupling time" is set to "0". Before it was 30000 (I guess ms). The problem was the same!

As you can see up to black arrow all is OK, and after than .....................

Repetier · May 2015

No image to see anything

DBSDBS · May 2015

Ok, I'll send more pictures and also my configuration.h and EEPROM.

By the way, the bed matrix was not correct and that's why occurs this all topic! If is possible I will send it to you.

DBSDBS · June 2015

Hi again,

Thous are EEPROM and Configuration.h

I didn't make pictures, because was not at home.

If you find some problems in thous files - please tell me.

Thank you in advance.

DBSDBS · June 2015

Hi again,

Today I found time and switched my bed to the "new" 24V PSU, and decided to make a test. Here is the log.txt file, but I'll put here the main moments:

17:29:08.387 : N71 M140 S120 *112 - start the bed heater

17:37:02.675 : N229 M104 T0 S268 *4 - start the extruder heater

17:37:28.914 : N242 G32 S0 *127 - leveling bed

17:42:57.763 : N350 G1 Z15 F500 *35 - start the printing process - as you can see almost 14 minutes after start heating the bed...

---------------------------------

17:43:08.308 : Disabled additional filament drawing for better framerates and to protect print quality.

17:43:08.308 : You can disable this in Config->Repetier settings->Behaviour.

I can'y understood this... and where is: Config->Repetier settings->Behaviour - there is no such menu.

--------------------------------------

.......... and the main problem:

17:44:09.554 : Error:One heater seems decoupled from thermistor - disabling all for safety!

17:44:09.554 : Error:Temp. raised to slow. Rise = -3.92 after 301018 ms

This "problematic" sensor in that case is the bed sensor. PIC1

But as you can see, this sensor is still connected and measure the bed temperature. PIC2

I double checked the thermistor connectivity and all is OK.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

In the previous post are EEPROM and Configuration.h ... WHERE is my mistake?

Pl;ease help me...

Repetier · June 2015

It is not saying that it is defect but decoupled.

The message says "I was heating your bed for 5 minutes and the temperature droppend 3,92°C, so I guess I'm not measuring the bed any more".

I can't see your bed temperature graph to see what he has really done, but that is what firmware thinks and for safety it disables everything before it burns your house.

So check how fast you bed heats or if you have done something to trigger this message. If it is bad timing you can adjust it in configration. In newest firmware releases you can set decoupling time to 0 to disable the test - for the lazy not wanting to play until it works as supporsed:-)

DBSDBS · June 2015

Hi folks,

All connections are good. The temperature curve of the bed is very smooth. That's why I set bed's decoupling time to 0, and now the printer works.

Unfortunately, because my current setup is with brand new extruder / nozzle / filament, I'm not sure what is wrong with my print quality now

The nozzle is marked as 0.4 mm. I set it even to 0.25 mm, but the gaps between lines are still seen. And this problem is from the second (and bigger) layer, no mater I set 100% infill. In addition I can't receive smooth lines.

I think the problem is with my filament - it is noname. I have to extrude it on a very high temperature - 268°C. Even at that temperature it flows very tough trough the nozzle.

Any advice?

*** If the administrator think that this post is not "at home" here, please move it on appropriate place.

DBSDBS · June 2015

Another thing:

where is: Config->Repetier settings->Behaviour

Repetier · June 2015

The correct path is now

Config->Preferences->Basic Settings->Behaviour

message was for a older version.

Do not put too much into the preview if you are talking about that. It does not necessarily use your slicing parameter so gaps there are ok.

268°C for which type of filament? For pla it is very high, abs also a bit. Might be the wrong thermistor setting so these are not your real temperatures.

DBSDBS · June 2015

The thermistor is THIS. I asked how to input all the data from the manufacturer in Repetir Firmware, and you told me to set it in the it a "generic thermistor table" and put in it just B = 3950. HOW can I check if the data from the thermostor are correct?

The filament is ABS but I think that even for it the temperature is high.

For the gaps... I set the "Infill density" to 100% and the result is on the top pictures... "Infill Overlap" does not change anything. I even rise the extruder's "steps per mm" with 15% - the same

Repetier · June 2015

You can set

/** If enabled, writes the created generic table to serial port at startup. */

#define DEBUG_GENERIC

then it will write the table in log on connection start.

Main problem is that you have no table resistance/temperature and the generic tables are mostly correct around the reference temperature which is here 25°C. So there it matches and will deviate more and more with higher temperatures.

The pictures are not visible, that seems to be a private storage only visible for you. Make sure your extruder is calibarted right and filament diameter is set correct. Both have great impact on extrusion width.

DBSDBS · June 2015

DBSDBS · June 2015

"You can set
/** If enabled, writes the created generic table to serial port at startup. */#define DEBUG_GENERIC
then it will write the table in log on connection start."

Where can I do that? And where from it will get the data? In Marlin firmware thermistortables.h I can set (copy) the data from manufacturers sheet... It will be very useful to add such place here...
I found a table that by other users is almost OK for my Thermistor: HERE or HERE .

Help me to put it into Repetier Firmware.

errolt · June 2015

You can probably just put #define DEBUG_GENERIC in configuration.h

BTW, I have seen this "Decoupled" issue when a fan turns on. In my case it was the fan that cools the print. It also cooled the head enough to cause the firmware to abort with decoupled error.

I know that the "decouple failure" can cause some false triggers if not set up correctly, but have you seen how quickly the heater cartridge heats up to smoking temperature if it detaches from the head? Takes about 5 seconds to start smoking. And if the thermistor disconnects from the head then it will melt a J-Head in about 90 seconds, probably catch fire in 120 seconds.

I mostly now only have decoupled errors if I reheat the head while it is cooling down, it takes too long to go from falling temp to raising temp, then it fails. But to me that is comforting to know that the decoupled feature is still working...

DBSDBS · June 2015

You are right! Decopuling is VERY important.

But as you told above, the main problem occurs when I want to reheat while the extruder is cooling down. And because I make many tests / changes, etc., I have to reheat the extruder very often after stopping the print process. In my case I prefer that Repetier STOPs all heaters after print end instead of errors while reheating the extruder. Furthermore all my head components are made from metal and the heated head is far enough from all other parts, so even if extruder's fan stops, it will take very long time before anything else start to smoke.

After finishing my tests and setups I plane to enable Decoupling functionality but will seriously increase waiting time.

DBSDBS · June 2015

This is a part from my cofiguration.h :

#define RETRACT_DURING_HEATUP true

#define PID_CONTROL_RANGE 20

#define SKIP_M109_IF_WITHIN 2

#define SCALE_PID_TO_MAX 0

#define TEMP_HYSTERESIS 1

#define EXTRUDE_MAXLENGTH 160

#define NUM_TEMPS_USERTHERMISTOR0 0

#define USER_THERMISTORTABLE0 {}

#define NUM_TEMPS_USERTHERMISTOR1 0

#define USER_THERMISTORTABLE1 {}

#define NUM_TEMPS_USERTHERMISTOR2 0

#define USER_THERMISTORTABLE2 {}

#define USE_GENERIC_THERMISTORTABLE_1

#define GENERIC_THERM1_T0 25

#define GENERIC_THERM1_R0 100000

#define GENERIC_THERM1_BETA 3950

#define GENERIC_THERM1_MIN_TEMP -20

#define GENERIC_THERM1_MAX_TEMP 300

#define GENERIC_THERM1_R1 0

#define GENERIC_THERM1_R2 4700

#define GENERIC_THERM_VREF 5

#define GENERIC_THERM_NUM_ENTRIES 33

#define HEATER_PWM_SPEED 0

Repetier · June 2015

Your images are now visible. Not perfect but it looks more like you have set your infill to 30-50% so gaps there are ok. Speed may be too hig as it is not very clean or temperature is too low. As I said you can not trust generic tables in high temperature area. YOu might need to set 220°C to get 210°C there. Therefore I prefer sensors where I know the relation from a datasheet and not only the generic values. Table it self is ok I think.

DBSDBS · June 2015

No, Infill is set to 100%. Speed is 30 mm/sec. Temperature is 272°C.

errolt · June 2015

Did you change anything on the extruder motor?

Looks like it has wrong steps/mm.

Or you have wrong steps/mm on X and Y. Is the printed part the correct size?

DBSDBS · June 2015

Yes, I increased extruders steps/mm by 35% (from fine tuned ones) to receive this almost good result. Before that it was worst!

X / Y stepps are 99.5% correct - checked many times!

DBSDBS · June 2015

Is there easy way to convert values from that format to correct ones, to put them in repetiers firmware, using: "User defined table) ?

     {1*OVERSAMPLENR,        938},
         {31*OVERSAMPLENR,       314},
         {41*OVERSAMPLENR,       290},
         {51*OVERSAMPLENR,       272},
         {61*OVERSAMPLENR,       258},
         {71*OVERSAMPLENR,       247},
         {81*OVERSAMPLENR,       237},
         {91*OVERSAMPLENR,       229},
         {101*OVERSAMPLENR,      221},
         {111*OVERSAMPLENR,      215},
         {121*OVERSAMPLENR,      209},

Repetier · June 2015

Aren't these values already from firmware? OVERSAMPLENR is just 4 for AVR boards.

errolt · June 2015

That looks like Marlin's thermistor table, but that is not the way that Repetier expects in it the configuration.h file...

DBSDBS, I have written a formula in excel before to convert those values to real resistance values, but I can't remember how I did it. can you post the line from the table where the temperature, the right column, contains 20 or 21 or 25? Then I can try and figure out again how to convert the counts to resistance as required by the configuration file.

Thank you,
Errol

DBSDBS · June 2015

Hi all,

Last evening I made some semi successful tests. I used hairspray - 2 different types for tests. The first gave me very good adhesion. The second - not so good. But that is normal.

My setup is:

Repetier Host with Repetier firmware;

CuraEngine, with first layer from 0.1 to 0.3 mm, with all Adhesion types.

Material is ABS,

Extrusion temperature is 272°C, the bed temperature is around 110°C,

Nozzle - 0.4 mm, and it has NO jams!

Heather is THIS.

Both temperature curves are very smooth.

The bigger problem is that the extruder DO NOT EXTRUDE ALMOST NOTHING during the first layer!!!

I did more: I made a two lines Brim around the full table (only for cleaning the nozzle), and AFTER than, I start to print the main object. I added this code in the header of the file and after it I put "G92 E0".

During printing a Brim, all is almost OK (except the line thickness). Immediately after finishing the Brim, and sending G92 E0, I start to print the first objects layer.... And from the nozzle flows .... NOTHING. I see that the extruder's gear rotates VERY SLOW and the filament moves down, but on the "exit" I receive really nothing...

Some minutes later, from the nozzle start to flow material and after 5-25 very bad lines, the real print begins. If the first layer is not big enough - The printer do not build it.

When the second layer is started, the extruder's gear start to rotate normally and the printing lines are almost OK, but they have no surface to lay onto.

When I extrude manually (by host's controls), I receive good 0.65 mm "wire". But when I print, the "wire" diameter is around 0.22 - 0.24 mm.

I cleared the nozzle using guitar chord, and I'm sure it is clear. Furthermore when I extrude manually the extrusion is perfect.

DBSDBS · June 2015

I checked many times extruder's step / mm, and for receiving good result, I even increase the correct steps by 30-35%. Even after that I receive thous results:

Off course, as you can see, the print is with bad quality, because of very thin extruded wire (0.22-0.24 mm).

So, I loos the direction and have no idea what to do.

Any Ideas?.

errolt · June 2015

Because you have set first layer to 0.1mm it will extrude less plastic.

Also, you must look at the gcode generated. There might be a retract before you run G92 E0, which means that that retract is never restored. This will cause a long print with no plastic coming out.

DBSDBS · June 2015

Because you have set first layer to 0.1mm it will extrude less plastic.

I tested with 0.15; 0.20; 0.25; 0.3 mm - the results ware the same

Also, you must look at the gcode generated. There might be a retract before you run G92 E0, which means that that retract is never restored. This will cause a long print with no plastic coming out.

I really had retract after the brim, BUT removed it. Here is the code:

;

G1 Z15 F{Z_TRAVEL_SPEED}

M107 ; Turn off fan

G90 ; Absolute positioning

M82 ; Extruder in absolute mode

{IF_BED}M190 S{BED}

; Activate all used extruder

{IF_EXT0}M104 T0 S{TEMP0}

G92 E0 ; Reset extruder position

; Wait for all used extruders to reach temperature

{IF_EXT0}M109 T0 S{TEMP0}

;TYPE:SKIRT - cleaner

G0 F9000 X9.601 Y9.601 Z0.200

G1 F1800 X190.399 Y9.601 E3.99889

G1 X190.399 Y190.399 E7.99778

G1 X9.601 Y190.399 E11.99666

G1 X9.601 Y9.601 E15.99555

G0 F9000 X9.867 Y9.867

G1 F1800 X190.133 Y9.867 E19.98267

G1 X190.133 Y190.133 E23.96980

G1 X9.867 Y190.133 E27.95692

G1 X9.867 Y9.867 E31.94404

G1 F2400 Z5.000 E32.00000

G92 E0 ; Reset extruder position

DBSDBS · June 2015

Aren't these values already from firmware? OVERSAMPLENR is just 4 for AVR boards.

No, the values are from HERE.

DBSDBS · June 2015

That looks like Marlin's thermistor table, but that is not the way that Repetier expects in it the configuration.h file...

DBSDBS, I have written a formula in excel before to convert those values to real resistance values, but I can't remember how I did it. can you post the line from the table where the temperature, the right column, contains 20 or 21 or 25? Then I can try and figure out again how to convert the counts to resistance as required by the configuration file.

Thank you,
Errol

No Errol, I have no such table. I want to convert back THIS table into °C values and manually put them in Repetier firmware User Defined Table

Heater decoupled ?!?!?

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