Rough, wavy surface, motor vibrations

Legion23

Dear Repetier support
Dear Forum members

I have a problem:

I have built a self-designed quite large Ultimaker-Style 3d-Printer, for the electronics, I´m using an Arduino Due with a RADDS-Shield an 1/128 RRD Silencioso stepper motor drivers.

Here is an earlier render of my printer, I´ve changed some things, for example the belt tensioners are replaced:

The problem that I´m having is that the motor is vibrating when moving, so i see vertical lines at straight walls and wavy patterns at curved objects (like in these photos). I´ve postet some pictures here: http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?336,393221,page=7

I can hear and feel the motor vibrating when moving, the wave patter doesn´t match with the belt weidth (GT3 3M) and it doesn´t match with the full steps of the motor.
It looks like the motor stops moving every few micro-seconds.
The motors are connected to the XY-carrier quite stiff with stiff couplings and strong tensioned belts, so the motor vibrations directly transmit to the extruder. If I decouple the motors, the mechanics are very easy to move, so the problem isn´t coming from here.

I´ve heard that Repetier uses an interrupt for reading sensor values and for communication and during this interrupt, Repetier doesn´t send stepping signals, that would explain the virbrations.
I´ve already tried to change the stepping mode from 1/128 to 1/32 and changed the motor current as well as the decay mode, same result.

There has to be a way to make the motors move smooth.

Legion23

Here is a part of the Config.h:

#define NUM_EXTRUDER 1 #define MOTHERBOARD 402 #include "pins.h" // ################## EDIT THESE SETTINGS MANUALLY ################ // ################ END MANUAL SETTINGS ########################## #define FAN_BOARD_PIN -1 //#define EXTERNALSERIAL use Arduino serial library instead of build in. Requires more ram, has only 63 byte input buffer. // Uncomment the following line if you are using arduino compatible firmware made for Arduino version earlier then 1.0 // If it is incompatible you will get compiler errors about write functions not beeing compatible! //#define COMPAT_PRE1 #define MIXING_EXTRUDER 0 #define DRIVE_SYSTEM 0 #define XAXIS_STEPS_PER_MM 474.07 #define YAXIS_STEPS_PER_MM 474.07 #define ZAXIS_STEPS_PER_MM 12800 #define EXTRUDER_FAN_COOL_TEMP 50 #define PDM_FOR_EXTRUDER 0 #define PDM_FOR_COOLER 0 #define DECOUPLING_TEST_MAX_HOLD_VARIANCE 20 #define DECOUPLING_TEST_MIN_TEMP_RISE 1 #define EXT0_X_OFFSET 0 #define EXT0_Y_OFFSET 0 #define EXT0_STEPS_PER_MM 1299.7 #define EXT0_TEMPSENSOR_TYPE 8 #define EXT0_TEMPSENSOR_PIN TEMP_0_PIN #define EXT0_HEATER_PIN HEATER_0_PIN #define EXT0_STEP_PIN ORIG_E0_STEP_PIN #define EXT0_DIR_PIN ORIG_E0_DIR_PIN #define EXT0_INVERSE 1 #define EXT0_ENABLE_PIN E0_ENABLE_PIN #define EXT0_ENABLE_ON 0 #define EXT0_MAX_FEEDRATE 100 #define EXT0_MAX_START_FEEDRATE 20 #define EXT0_MAX_ACCELERATION 5000 #define EXT0_HEAT_MANAGER 1 #define EXT0_WATCHPERIOD 1 #define EXT0_PID_INTEGRAL_DRIVE_MAX 255 #define EXT0_PID_INTEGRAL_DRIVE_MIN 40 #define EXT0_PID_PGAIN_OR_DEAD_TIME 41 #define EXT0_PID_I 0.1 #define EXT0_PID_D 260 #define EXT0_PID_MAX 255 #define EXT0_ADVANCE_K 0 #define EXT0_ADVANCE_L 0 #define EXT0_ADVANCE_BACKLASH_STEPS 0 #define EXT0_WAIT_RETRACT_TEMP 160 #define EXT0_WAIT_RETRACT_UNITS 5095 #define EXT0_SELECT_COMMANDS "" #define EXT0_DESELECT_COMMANDS "" #define EXT0_EXTRUDER_COOLER_PIN -1 #define EXT0_EXTRUDER_COOLER_SPEED 255 #define EXT0_DECOUPLE_TEST_PERIOD 12000 #define RETRACT_DURING_HEATUP true #define PID_CONTROL_RANGE 20 #define SKIP_M109_IF_WITHIN 2 #define SCALE_PID_TO_MAX 0 #define TEMP_HYSTERESIS 1 #define EXTRUDE_MAXLENGTH 160 #define NUM_TEMPS_USERTHERMISTOR0 0 #define USER_THERMISTORTABLE0 {} #define NUM_TEMPS_USERTHERMISTOR1 0 #define USER_THERMISTORTABLE1 {} #define NUM_TEMPS_USERTHERMISTOR2 0 #define USER_THERMISTORTABLE2 {} #define GENERIC_THERM_VREF 5 #define GENERIC_THERM_NUM_ENTRIES 33 #define HEATER_PWM_SPEED 0 // ############# Heated bed configuration ######################## #define HAVE_HEATED_BED 1 #define HEATED_BED_MAX_TEMP 120 #define SKIP_M190_IF_WITHIN 3 #define HEATED_BED_SENSOR_TYPE 8 #define HEATED_BED_SENSOR_PIN TEMP_1_PIN #define HEATED_BED_HEATER_PIN HEATER_1_PIN #define HEATED_BED_SET_INTERVAL 5000 #define HEATED_BED_HEAT_MANAGER 0 #define HEATED_BED_PID_INTEGRAL_DRIVE_MAX 255 #define HEATED_BED_PID_INTEGRAL_DRIVE_MIN 80 #define HEATED_BED_PID_PGAIN_OR_DEAD_TIME 196 #define HEATED_BED_PID_IGAIN 33 #define HEATED_BED_PID_DGAIN 290 #define HEATED_BED_PID_MAX 255 #define HEATED_BED_DECOUPLE_TEST_PERIOD 60000 #define MIN_EXTRUDER_TEMP 150 #define MAXTEMP 280 #define MIN_DEFECT_TEMPERATURE -10 #define MAX_DEFECT_TEMPERATURE 290 // ################ Endstop configuration ##################### #define ENDSTOP_PULLUP_X_MIN true #define ENDSTOP_X_MIN_INVERTING false #define MIN_HARDWARE_ENDSTOP_X true #define ENDSTOP_PULLUP_Y_MIN true #define ENDSTOP_Y_MIN_INVERTING false #define MIN_HARDWARE_ENDSTOP_Y true #define ENDSTOP_PULLUP_Z_MIN true #define ENDSTOP_Z_MIN_INVERTING false #define MIN_HARDWARE_ENDSTOP_Z true #define ENDSTOP_PULLUP_X_MAX true #define ENDSTOP_X_MAX_INVERTING false #define MAX_HARDWARE_ENDSTOP_X false #define ENDSTOP_PULLUP_Y_MAX true #define ENDSTOP_Y_MAX_INVERTING false #define MAX_HARDWARE_ENDSTOP_Y false #define ENDSTOP_PULLUP_Z_MAX true #define ENDSTOP_Z_MAX_INVERTING false #define MAX_HARDWARE_ENDSTOP_Z false #define max_software_endstop_r true #define min_software_endstop_x false #define min_software_endstop_y false #define min_software_endstop_z false #define max_software_endstop_x true #define max_software_endstop_y true #define max_software_endstop_z true #define ENDSTOP_X_BACK_MOVE 5 #define ENDSTOP_Y_BACK_MOVE 5 #define ENDSTOP_Z_BACK_MOVE 0.5 #define ENDSTOP_X_RETEST_REDUCTION_FACTOR 3 #define ENDSTOP_Y_RETEST_REDUCTION_FACTOR 3 #define ENDSTOP_Z_RETEST_REDUCTION_FACTOR 3 #define ENDSTOP_X_BACK_ON_HOME 1 #define ENDSTOP_Y_BACK_ON_HOME 1 #define ENDSTOP_Z_BACK_ON_HOME 0 #define ALWAYS_CHECK_ENDSTOPS 0 // ################# XYZ movements ################### #define X_ENABLE_ON 1 #define Y_ENABLE_ON 1 #define Z_ENABLE_ON 1 #define DISABLE_X 0 #define DISABLE_Y 0 #define DISABLE_Z 0 #define DISABLE_E 0 #define INVERT_X_DIR 1 #define INVERT_Y_DIR 0 #define INVERT_Z_DIR 1 #define X_HOME_DIR -1 #define Y_HOME_DIR -1 #define Z_HOME_DIR -1 #define X_MAX_LENGTH 340 #define Y_MAX_LENGTH 320 #define Z_MAX_LENGTH 500 #define X_MIN_POS 0 #define Y_MIN_POS 0 #define Z_MIN_POS 0 // ########################################################################################## // ## Movement settings ## // ########################################################################################## #define FEATURE_BABYSTEPPING 1 #define BABYSTEP_MULTIPLICATOR 1 #define DELTA_SEGMENTS_PER_SECOND_PRINT 600 // Move accurate setting for print moves #define DELTA_SEGMENTS_PER_SECOND_MOVE 300 // Less accurate setting for other moves // Delta settings #define DELTA_HOME_ON_POWER 0 #define DELTASEGMENTS_PER_PRINTLINE 24 #define STEPPER_INACTIVE_TIME 360L #define MAX_INACTIVE_TIME 1200L #define MAX_FEEDRATE_X 400 #define MAX_FEEDRATE_Y 400 #define MAX_FEEDRATE_Z 5 #define HOMING_FEEDRATE_X 40 #define HOMING_FEEDRATE_Y 40 #define HOMING_FEEDRATE_Z 2 #define HOMING_ORDER HOME_ORDER_XYZ #define ENABLE_BACKLASH_COMPENSATION 0 #define X_BACKLASH 0 #define Y_BACKLASH 0 #define Z_BACKLASH 0 #define RAMP_ACCELERATION 1 #define STEPPER_HIGH_DELAY 0 #define DIRECTION_DELAY 0 #define STEP_DOUBLER_FREQUENCY 96000 #define ALLOW_QUADSTEPPING 1 #define DOUBLE_STEP_DELAY 0 // time in microseconds #define MAX_HALFSTEP_INTERVAL 1999 #define MAX_ACCELERATION_UNITS_PER_SQ_SECOND_X 1500 #define MAX_ACCELERATION_UNITS_PER_SQ_SECOND_Y 1500 #define MAX_ACCELERATION_UNITS_PER_SQ_SECOND_Z 100 #define MAX_TRAVEL_ACCELERATION_UNITS_PER_SQ_SECOND_X 2500 #define MAX_TRAVEL_ACCELERATION_UNITS_PER_SQ_SECOND_Y 2500 #define MAX_TRAVEL_ACCELERATION_UNITS_PER_SQ_SECOND_Z 100 #define MAX_JERK 25 #define MAX_ZJERK 0.3 #define PRINTLINE_CACHE_SIZE 32 #define MOVE_CACHE_LOW 10 #define LOW_TICKS_PER_MOVE 250000 #define FEATURE_TWO_XSTEPPER 0 #define X2_STEP_PIN ORIG_E1_STEP_PIN #define X2_DIR_PIN ORIG_E1_DIR_PIN #define X2_ENABLE_PIN ORIG_E1_ENABLE_PIN #define FEATURE_TWO_YSTEPPER 0 #define Y2_STEP_PIN ORIG_E1_STEP_PIN #define Y2_DIR_PIN ORIG_E1_DIR_PIN #define Y2_ENABLE_PIN ORIG_E1_ENABLE_PIN #define FEATURE_TWO_ZSTEPPER 0 #define Z2_STEP_PIN ORIG_E1_STEP_PIN #define Z2_DIR_PIN ORIG_E1_DIR_PIN #define Z2_ENABLE_PIN ORIG_E1_ENABLE_PIN #define FEATURE_DITTO_PRINTING 0 #define USE_ADVANCE 0 #define ENABLE_QUADRATIC_ADVANCE 0 // ################# Misc. settings ################## #define BAUDRATE 250000 #define ENABLE_POWER_ON_STARTUP 1 #define POWER_INVERTING 0 #define KILL_METHOD 1 #define GCODE_BUFFER_SIZE 2 #define ACK_WITH_LINENUMBER 1 #define WAITING_IDENTIFIER "wait" #define ECHO_ON_EXECUTE 1 #define EEPROM_MODE 1 #define PS_ON_PIN -1

Repetier

I do not think it is any interrupt. Especially on the due they are all so short, that it can not explain that pattern.

Are you using 24V for motors? I heard tiny substeps do not work well with 12V. Try a simple slow move to see if motor is silent. At this speed interrupts have 0 relevance.

Legion23

Hello Repetier

Thanks for the fast response.

I use 24V for the motors.

I did some further investigation with this printed octagon:

Octagon

X-Side

Y-Side

X-Y-Side

X-Side with measurement

X-Y-Side with measurement

This part is 10 mm high, print settings are 0.2 mm layer height, 3 perimeters and 25 % infill.

Every 3 mm, the printing speed has changed:

0-3 mm: Default 66 mm/s, Outline Underspeed 40 % (26,6 mm/s)
3-6 mm: Default 100 mm/s, Outline Underspeed 40% (40 mm/s)
6-10 mm: Default 133 mm/s, Outline Underspeed 40% (53,3 mm/s)

(I use Simplify3d for slicing, so the "outline underspeed" means that the outermost perimeter is printed with 40% of the default speed, the middle perimeter is printed at 60% and the innermost perimeter is printed at 80%. )

As you can see, the distance between the waves is longer at the higher printing speed. To be exact, a double printspeed results in a double wave length. (maybe this isn´t clearly visible at the photos, but I can definitely see it here)

In my opinion, this shows that the waves are generated at a fixed time interval, so only the Due or the firmware can be responsible for it.

The linear bearings I use are running absolutely free nearly without any friction or slip-stick-effect. The belts also can´t cause this problem because if so, the wave pattern would have a fixed wavelength, which isn´t the case.

Any further ideas?

Repetier

Ok, I have no real experience with such high printing speeds. But it looks a bit like the infill is showing through. Have you tried similar objects without infill, just to rule out negative effects from infill. I has a similar picture once and it was the infill pulling and pushing on the perimeter.

Legion23

I can ensure you that it isn´t the infill. It´s the same with objects without infill or with single-wall parts.

Only for the case that the interrupt causes this problem, is there a way to modify the frequency of the interrupt (the time between the interrupt) without rewriting the whole firmware?
I didn´t find any "#define interrupt_time" or something like that yet.

Repetier

Interrupt time is exactly the time for the next step. So it changes between steps to be most accurate. Since your speed is below 200mm/s every step even gets it's own timing and no double steps should occur. And in the logic analyser a have seen that timings are very good. So it might be vibration related. Have you tried with 16 microsteps instead of 128. I have no experience with silencios so far, so I don't know how good they work with motors and if they really stop at 128 substeps.